Originally Posted by SoTzuMe

It seems like the obvious counter to mobs fleeing from aoe damage is to drop an aoe snare first. Thinking FTW!

Originally Posted by Maagus

This would be nice (seriously, no sarcasm). PvE side of the game would be finally challenging. And players would eventually use this experience when they start with PvP.
In my opinion game called Guild Wars is mainly PvP oriented, therefore it expects the majority of players to play PvP.

Originally Posted by entropy

its UAS and no they aren't adding it so its moot. I said I hate PvE. There are two types and mixing the two is a bad idea. Learn to read.

Originally Posted by Antc

That may be the case, but when the game was released the emphasis was on playing WITH other people not necessarily against other people. Why should PvE be turned into a training ground for PvP? It makes no difference anyway - most groups in HoH dont want you unless your rank 3 or above.

Originally Posted by Torment

Then if it is MAINLY PvP, don't even bother to make a PvE side. Simple. I love how the PvP'ers seem to think that this game was made for them ONLY. What arrogance. PvP'ers like comparing their masculintiy with others? Fantastic, I'm quite secure in mine and don't need to. It also doesn't matter what they expected, whether it was the majority of players to be PvP or not. Never assume anything, is always a good idea to live by.

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

No, it's UAE, because you don't want to unlock all skills, you want to unlock EVERYTHING.
Secondly you're commenting on PvE. The fact that you hate PvE and want it broken is the reason you're disqualified for commenting.

No it hasn't. It's been buffed. Your braindead farming build which was based on exploiting the weak AI has been nerfed.

Originally Posted by id0l

It's "buggered" mesmers (they have AoE you know)

Originally Posted by Maagus

It is not arrogant in any way. There is huge difference between how the skills work in PvP and how they work in PvE. This gap should be in my opinion as small as possible (ie. how AI reacts in certain situations - on certain skills - should be as close to human reactions as possible)

Originally Posted by Loralai

Maybe ANet and NCSoft see this as a failure on their part, and want to start slipping chili in our hot dog buns, until we catch on.

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Guild Wars had a few design issues concerning AI, and we've taken and will continue to take steps to correct that. The changes that we make may affect how you play, or perhaps even what you play. I wouldn't rush out to change every one of your characters because we're still making adjustments. And do be assured that we will be monitoring the changes to make sure that we don't change needlessly, and to make sure that what we do doesn't make a skill, or an entire skill line, useless. If a particular skill has been overly affected by the recent updates, we'll make amends by correcting that skill. If you have a case to state, state it on that: "This skill has suffered from the changes and should be improved and here’s what I’ve experienced." Not “Roll back the update,” or “I’m going to play some other game.” Help us with good analysis and with comments of a constructive nature. And watch for positive changes in the future.

Originally Posted by entropy

READ MY POSTS I HAVE NEVER FARMED IN MY LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Mesmers have one weak continuous damage AoE. This update has boosted the usefulness of mesmers a lot, because mesmers have a number of really powerful one-hit AoE's.
AFAIK mobs dont run from wells (although maybe they should)
This bug has already been fixed by update.
The only class which is seriously affected is the fire eles. The WAter ele was useless before, now is suddenly one of the more important ele classes because half the spells are snares. Earth ele is about the same as before (swings & roundabouts for them).

No. Only AoEs which does continuous damage cause mobs to flee.

You mean that you screwed up a lot more than you think. Why not go out and play the game and see for yourself what the patch does, instead of relying on the BS of annoyed solo-farmers and PvP-only'ers who don't even want to play PvE but feel like bitching about it anyway?

I really shouldn't have to tell real PvE'ers about how this update has opened opportunitys for new tactics, it should be blindingly obvious. Snare if you want to nuke - that's a hard concept apparently. Use continuous damage AoE's only if you've trapped the monsters or want the monsters to move - even harder concept. Use one-hit AoE and spiking for damage - real hard concept. Spec your team like you were going to compete in random arena - total mental meltdown, rolling on the floor screaming 'nerf! nerf! teh horrible nerf!'.

Originally Posted by Maagus

True, but the point is, why do you want to get into rank 3 groups ? Because they may be better then the new ones ? Wouldn´t it be better if the new ones knew how would people in PvP react on their skills and basic mechanics of tem work and therefore getting into random and blind groups wouldn´t be so frustrating ?

Originally Posted by entropy

Don't assume like you always do. they still run away from ignite. Why cause I tested this after the update along with other skills. OMG throw dirt still makes them run and I believe whirling defence too. Unholy feast and more I could name. 1 hit aoe's make them run. Such as unholy feast. Its not just continous aoe's. Don't just read others posts and assume test it yourself. I did.

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

You're farming skills & exp, aren't you. That WAS the only reason you played PvE, wasn't it.

Your kind of player is the reason I am in favor of an UAE button. You guys shouldn't have to play PvE. I don't feel this way because I care about your suffering as you get run by your guildies through the PvE campaign, but because I feel sorry for the actual PvE players who might find themselves in your PUG.

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Hah, truly laughable.

Let me say this: Gaile, you have the unenviable job of defending this, but it's truly horrid. You say to let support know, but they just reply that we should post in the forums. Your testers apparently fell asleep for a few weeks, as the AI was ridiculously bad, and still is. It's a joke trying to make a suggestion through forums such as this one, since a valid, simple suggestion like "allow customizing of colours on the minimap for colourblind players" which would be easy to accomplish and would help a significant number of players gets buried under the tripe like "dual wielding" and the 1000s of suggestions of moronic, overpowered skills/classes and requests for nerfs. We're also restricted to posting in the threads about the patch, which means that good suggesions get buried among the whines and rants.

Here are the reasons the patch is horrid:

1) Enemies can't play like players. If they did all the Charr on a map should bunch up; the mission would be deserted until you found the huge group of Charr. Why would they split up? Why would they allow each other to die just out of aggro range? The fact is that the heroes are against impossible odds, and if the AI truly had any intelligence it would wipe us out impossibly fast. That and the fact that a small group of them should take one look at the party and scram - they shouldn't ever aggro a party in fact, as they know damn well that 2 monks and a pile of guys will outlast them, they'd hightail it back to find some healers themselves.

a) not pursuing players: This makes no sense; I think it's an attempt to restrict players from farming (dragging foes into packs) but it is illogical - a fleeing foe is a great target - why would they stop? The sentient ones should eliminate intruders anyway, not stop feet away from them because of an invisiible line, and most natural predators have huge ranges and are encouraged by flight. While some critters might realisitically stay in a smaller region (plant types, the devourers who behave like antlions/wolf spiders and prey only in a small area) the vast majority should be chasing us.

b) Fleeing AoE: Ok, a part of this is needed - it is true that they were too dumb before, but the behaviour is ludicrous. You obviously have nobody with any AI design experience. Heck, bring in some undergrad co-op students from a local cognitive science program, you get free labour that actually can find their butts with a map. You say you want them smarter? You haven't managed it - they're dumber, just a different kind of dumb. Honestly, you need decent testers and someone who can actually do AI.

If the enemies were smart we'd die. You'd meet a small pack of Charr, they'd send a runner to round up the others and play a stalling game till reinforcements came. They'd probably get involved when you slaughter them withing eyesight/earshot of each oteher. They might not stand and shooot a wall while you curse them from behind it. Maybe they'd even learn to avoid players. But the fact is that we aren't strong enough to deal with truly smart foes. So you need dumb foes, and you have to pick your flavour of dumb. The current dumb-ness is unpalatable and ludicrous - after all, they'll happily stay near a warrior dealing out massive damage, instead of kiting, while they'll flee an AoE spell? Either hurts! Getting away from a creature hitting you with an axe would seem to be a priority to me...

As to the PvP vs. PvE thing, I know I've made many suggestions about ways to either improve the links between them or to dissolve them, but they'll never be read as they get buried. If you want to chat give me a shout, but I'm completely discouraged from trying to get any ideas across. The forums may get perused by ANet, but it's incredibly inefficient.

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

No. Only AoEs which does continuous damage cause mobs to flee.